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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 11:22, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Brigitte García

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Brigitte García (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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WP:1E/WP:NOTMEMORIAL, only known because of her murder. As such, this biographical article should not exist, because she wasn't notable enough as a mayor of a small town. Clear WP:GNG fail with attempt at claiming notability based on post-death sources that are all about her death rather than significant coverage about her as a whole. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:14, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am against, I sure the youngest mayor in Ecuador is notable, though it would be difficult for me to go through spainish media to retrieve it. Here is at least one article before here death.
There are also articles about murder victims on Wikipedia, so not being super notable alive isn't necessarily a cause for deletion.
https://www.pressreader.com/ecuador/el-diario-ecuador/20230215/281801403134246 A reasonable voice (talk) 16:06, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. To make my above opinion absolutely clear, I am against deleting the article not retaining the article. A reasonable voice (talk) 09:11, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pretty sure those articles about murder victims dive into the murder itself, not the person.
Also, those articles are just notable because of the murder and/or a celebrity who got murdered or did the murder. This is neither of those things as the page only exists because she died. Also, the "youngest mayor in Ecuador" part is trivia, and not actually something that means much. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 09:59, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep. The youngest mayor in Ecuador is notable. There is significant coverage.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-68655323
The One Event rule is not applicable, because there are at least two notable events in in her life — election as mayor and death.
Notmemorial is for persons trying to write about their deceased relatives, not about people who are written about in BBC, Spiegel, Sky news, Reuters, Fox News.
We do not require sources to be published before death. BilboBeggins (talk) 16:28, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If her election as mayor was notable, then provide some sources for it.
I think you'd have a hard time doing that as she was a mayor of a small town (her being the youngest mayor in Ecuador is just trivia). 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 08:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep This is comparable to a Mayor being assassinated in America in a city of 200,000. This is part of a wider spread of assassinations that should be covered on Wikipedia.
The assassination wasn't even the most notable part about her. She was the youngest mayor in Ecuador, a country of 9,000,000 people. Lukt64 (talk) 17:23, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And?
So what if she was the youngest mayor in Ecuador? Are there any reliable sources of her before her death? Her being the youngest mayor in Ecuador is just trivia. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 09:56, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"This is comparable to a Mayor being assassinated in America in a city of 200,000." - No it's not. The significance and size of towns isn't measured proportional to the size of their parent country, or we'd report every time someone stubbed their toe in the Vatican. I'm definitely ready to be persuaded that Ms Garcia was notable, and I hope to see some sources for that. But the size of her town relative to the country is completely irrelevant. GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:13, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Lukt64 and BilboBeggins youngest mayor of Ecuador is notable.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:03, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians, Women, and Crime. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 19:04, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Coverage (worldwide) with “reliable secondary sources that are independent of the topic and provide significant coverage of it beyond a mere trivial mention” like here and here. Note it’s not only coverage after her death but also from 2023. 82.174.61.58 (talk) 19:56, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not entirely sure what to do here. We've never held that someone is notable simply because they were a young mayor before - it's nowhere in NPOL and those arguments aren't valid in this discussion. For a small town mayor to be notable, they have to be notable above and beyond just being a mayor. WP:CRIME applies here instead, not WP:NPOL, which I don't usually apply at AfD - that reads The victim or person wrongly convicted, consistent with Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Subjects notable only for one event, had a large role within a well-documented historic event. The historic significance is indicated by persistent coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources that devote significant attention to the individual's role. I don't think we're quite there yet, but the amount of coverage that was received here means we could get there if this continues to be well-documented. SportingFlyer T·C 23:12, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agreed. If she was so notable from that, then there should be good sourcing for that, but nobody voting keep here has actually provided any sources that are significant coverage from prior to her death about this aledged remarkable achievement. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:26, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom or move per @LaborHorizontal. No one has yet provided significant coverage of García before her death. Her being the youngest mayor of Ecuador is still purely trivia and should not be treated as an actual encyclopedic fact. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 09:30, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There's a 2023 Ecuavisa article about García. toweli (talk) 13:42, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ideally keep, otherwise move to something like "Assassination of Brigitte García". I understand concerns about most sources being about her assassination rather than other parts of her career. Two things about that: (1) That itself is notable in my opinion, and justifies at least an article about the assassination if not the person herself, and (2) the sources note that she was notable in being the youngest mayor in Ecuador and a leftist challenger. Additional articles about her prior to her assassination:
The Primicias article only has passing mentions of García. Same for the El Diario article (not from Pressreader). The Ecuavisa and El Diario (on Pressreader) articles base her notability solely on the fact that she's the youngest mayor in Ecuador. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 09:31, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even if sources note that she was notable for being the youngest mayor in Ecuador, that is still trivia. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 06:41, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep quite clearly passes the WP:GNG threshold and sure could be majorly expanded. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:26, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I disagree that Garcia is 1E because her age and assassination would seem to both be of some note, but the former is trivia (do we have an article for the youngest mayor in every country), and the latter could probably use some expansion. Either way, we really could use more information on her actual career. If we agree to keep but expansion does not occur, this article SHOULD be reverted to a draft. DarkSide830 (talk) 23:17, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, notable mayor. I don't see a reason to delete this article, considering that there's an ongoing political crisis. Microplastic Consumer (talk) 03:55, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What arguments do you have to show she is notable and that you "don't see a reason to delete this article"? 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 08:58, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, It may not be notable for a mayor that no one knew besides the occupants of her city, but according to most sources linked here, she was notable for being a young 27 year old being a mayor in Ecuador where the politicians are usually born in the 1950's and 60's and in some cases 1940's, it isn't surprising that most news articles focus on her. But her murder definitely gave a lot of spotlight since some people may have liked her and was in shock to hear that she was killed likely to an organization or a lone wolf. 70.167.194.163 (talk) 17:30, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Her being the youngest mayor in Ecuador is purely trivia, not actually encyclopedic. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 10:02, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to "Murder of Brigitte García" I agree with others who have pointed out that she is mostly notable for the manner of her death (murdered mayor). She would never have otherwise had a wikipedia article solely for being the youngest mayor in Ecuador. However, the media coverage of the murder itself is clearly significant in the context of the country's political crisis - enough so to merit an article (for examples of other articles about a notable murder itself and not about the murder victim, see Murder of Travis Alexander or Murder of Anita Cobby). Because the murder is far more notable than the murder victim, the existing content should be moved to an article focused on the killing itself. FlipandFlopped ツ 01:09, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have no problem with this result. SportingFlyer T·C 09:29, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's definitely an option as well. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 08:58, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can we close this? The overwhelming consensus is to keep the article, only 2 editors seem to oppose this move while another supports a move Microplastic Consumer (talk) 14:07, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There isn't clear consensus and there's WP:NODEADLINE on Wikipedia, so no need to speedy close this. There's multiple options including moving to "Murder of Brigitte García" on the table, which need to be properly discussed. 3 more days of discussion to achieve a better consensus is sensible right now. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:11, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep the article! the suggestion to move to "Murder of Brigitte Garcia" is also reasonable. This impressive young woman should be remembered. 2A02:C7C:BDD7:5000:E046:37F:FE7E:DD66 (talk) 19:03, 31 March 2024 (UTC) — 2A02:C7C:BDD7:5000:E046:37F:FE7E:DD66e has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
No. See @Joseph2302's response. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 09:14, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is an ITN nomination that has been closed because of this AfD and won't be re-opened until this AfD is closed. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:28, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So what? The nom is already gone. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 09:00, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • A discussion is most certainly not needed. I'd be less surprised to see her nominated at WP:ITN/C than I would at AFD. It's quite clear that consensus exists here - it's no longer necessary to be campaigning. Also pointing out that a nomination is very poor, is by no definition a personal attack! It's clearly a poor nomination, given the very clear consensus, and high participation.Nfitz (talk) 19:53, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Disagreeing is fine, calling this AFD the worst nomination I've seen in a long time is not civil, and overly aggressive towards me. Given multiple editors have not voted keep, this is not a ridiculous nomination like you claim. Moving to a "Murder of" article is more sensible than a biography article too, and that warrants discussion. Joseph2302 (talk) 22:35, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's absolutely civil, and not personal - it's encouragement to withdraw the nomination. Moving the article - which isn't something I've suggested - would be at ATD, and then BEFORE comes into question; but is suggesting BEFORE personal - because surely if what I said is personal - so is that. Nfitz (talk) 23:07, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Greatest reasoning to keep: "should not be deleted at all". 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 06:41, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Current Tally:
15 Keep
3 Delete
2 Move
I feel this is sufficient to keep the article, a wide majority of editors are in favor of keeping this article Microplastic Consumer (talk) 20:32, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty sure consensus doesn't just work by counting up the number of votes, but also by the quality of the arguments (WP:DCON). A large number of Keep voters don't seem to have an actual argument (besides her being the youngest mayor in Ecuador, which is trivia) for keeping that challenges the nominator's concerns. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 08:46, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It isn't just counting the voters - but over 5:1 without some kind of off-wiki campaign or something, is hard to dispute. But hang on - the primary argument appears to be significant coverage, not youngest mayor - the youngest mayor argument appears secondary in response to the ONEEVENT claims. Nfitz (talk) 15:59, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:1E was the original argument.
Also, even if the argument is SIGCOV, then it's SIGCOV before her death, as it's already obvious that there is SIGCOV at her death. But if SIGCOV cannot be found before her death then I support moving this article to Murder of Brigitte García. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 19:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No. An admin will make the closure. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 06:58, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 07:25, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: not sure why it was even nominated. there is a significance coverage for reliable and independent sources, and I am talking about English sources without mentioning the plethora of non-English sources. whether you want to discuss a move or not, that should be done separately. But as far as Wikipedia notability, she is notable and deserve to be included. Can someone include her picture in the infobox, as she is dead it can be used under fair use.
FuzzyMagma (talk) 09:10, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What arguments do you have to consider her notable? 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 09:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Jalapeño, you've responded to practically every individual !vote here, some of them several times. This is excessive and approaching WP:BLUDGEON. It's not actually required that sources demonstrating someone's notability be published before their death, or we'd have a great deal of trouble with a lot of historical figures. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:38, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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